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By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Saurons power (and Gandalfs too). Also, it says in the book that the Nazgul went to Isengard demanding news of the ring and if Sauraman had the ring, Sauraman said if I had the ring you would bow down to me and call me lord I think Saruman would've won if he captured the ring. He wanted to inform Saruman the White -- who was head of the White Council -- that he had found Sauron's One Ring hidden away in the Shire. JavaScript is disabled. When the White Council was formed around T.A. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. The Ring merely corrupted you, it did not control you. When given the opportunity It would betray Its wearer, and find Its way back to Its Master. Galadriel) might have been able to master the ring. It's much more likely that Saruman would have used the One Ring for himself and tried to claim Middle-earth as his own. So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the . She seems to have seriously pondered what she might do if she got hold of the Ring, and she was only an Elf, not a Maiar like Saruman. What happens next would depend on Sauron himself; whether he would seek to retake the Ring immediately; whether he would visit Saruman himself or send a lesser servant. Saruman volunteered. Director Peter Jackson adapted the books into six films divided into two trilogies The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.More popularly referred to as The Lord of the Rings movies, watching them in chronological order helps viewers place certain disparate events . Not unless Saruman got the ring. Be specific and add in your sources, we prefer not to have speculation here. Well? He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . Why are trials on "Law & Order" in the New York Supreme Court? We see this happening when Frodo claims the Ring at the Crack of Doom, and there's no reason to think it would be different for Saruman. RELATED: The Lord of the Rings: 10 Details About Sauron's Costume You Never Noticed This incident, one of those that was invented for the film to increase tension, is an incredible missed opportunity for the minions of the Dark . It would be a delicate balance. **Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. If Saruman's Uruks had been successful and he had taken possession of the One Ring, how would have things turned out differently in Middle-earth? Or perhaps his lust for power would have blinded him to that? When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. But if only one Istar has come to Middle-earth so far, Saruman is a strong candidate. Does this sword yield more power than the ring? Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. Saruman himself is not directly involved, and only appears again in chapter 10, The Voice of Saruman, by which time he is trapped in Orthanc. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? If he followed the strategy I've mentioned, his fighters would have to deal with the feisty Rohirrim, and would also run the risk of a flank attack from Gondor, before they could even get near Isengard. When Sauron was in Dol Guldur, he lay dormant most of the time. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. The Silmarillion says, In the likeness of men they appeared, old but vigorous. Only Crdan the Shipwright knew Sarumans identity. 3 yr. ago. He will likely go through some things, but that would mean the Gandalf we meet in the Second Age is largely the same as the Gandalf in the Third Age. That success would be the usual bitter victory, though, because first the new wielder of the ring would need to build his own power, and learn the mastery of the ring. Did Peter Jackson take inspiration for Gollum from "Dracula 1931" movie. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. So all of the vanilla staves will get a retexture that adds a new color depending on their enchantment. Keep in mind the Ring doesn't only have Sauron's power in it. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that . What would happen if a Barrow-wight had taken the One Ring and why didn't they? *shrugs*. The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, A THE LORD OF THE RINGS Musical Heads to the UK Stage, LOTR: RETURN OF THE KING Returning to Theaters for 20th Anniversary, 5 Middle-earth Stories the New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies Should Tell, Go On a Journey with THE LORD OF THE RINGS ADVENTURE BOOK GAME, New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies in the Works (Yes, Really), MAGIC: THE GATHERING Headsto Middle-earth with LORD OF THE RINGS Set, Send Sauron a Letter with LOTR Black Speech Keyboard. The images have been re-edited so I hope you enjoy! This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Why does Gollum calling the ring his own not alert Sauron? Much of Sarumans history in the Second Age is mysterious. Saruman summon the storm on Caradhras in the PJverse in The Fellowship of the Ring. The question of what Saruman would have done therefore becomes moot since it seems inevitable that Sauron would have been the stronger. What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. See Palantr Wikipedia . I dont find it terribly exciting that Gandalf arrived in Middle-earth and was good from the beginning (with Noris help). Sauron was much the stronger, but a lot of his power is in the ring. But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. In Rivendell, Frodo all but offers the Ring to Aragorn, saying Then it belongs to you, and not to me at all! (FOTR260). Still it was a meritorious disobedience and worthy of praise. Also there is the forest of Fangorn between them I think. He wanted the One Ring. But now that he was back in Mordor, he was openly . To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. One can imagine When he saw Aragorn marching on the Black Gate, he was afraid. Was the "Eye of Sauron" Sauron's actual physical form? Here's a hypothesis: Yes, Saruman knew the lore of making such rings but not necessarily the technique (as anyone who has tried to recreate an article based on a knitting or crochet pattern found online can tell you!) As mentioned, the Valar sent the Istari (who are Maiar spirits) to Middle-earth. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? and our Saruman was Maia like Sauron. But it will still never truly be his & he will have to continually fight to dominate it as the One Ring wants to return to its master, who cannot be banished until the Ring is destroyed. Saruman was known for being subtle in speech (with a powerful ability to sway others with his voice) and skilled in smithcraft. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. "Saruman would've won if he captured the ring"--Won what? They were basically the teachers pet ones who lived closest to the Valar and did not trouble themselves (except once) with the problems of Middle-Earth. Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. They sang in the Music or the Ainur and were commanders of Morgoth's armies. Tolkien. Yet, he had something that needed to be done first. Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". Sarumaon told Gandalf that a new power was rising and noone could srand and therefore they should join that power. As was made quite clear at the Council of Elrond, as long as the Ring existed Sauron could not fully be destroyed. What happens next? Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. Well Gandalf and Galadriel were pretty confident in their ability to defeat Sauron using One Ring! He eventually became the leader of the Istari because of all of them, he had most studied the devices of Sauron of old. In other words, he learned about dark magic and Ringlore and knew the enemy the best of the Istari. Would the One Ring even work for anyone but Sauron? That makes Gandalf more or less like we know him from The Lord of the Rings, thousands of years in the future. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. The other Rings of power could be used by anyone else varying only by the individual. This one, too, was controlled by Sauron. He would have been able to control more people, and he would have had a much easier time dominating their wills. After his friendship with Nori, that would hurt. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Sauron's power (and Gandalf's too). Lucky hit or not, he was vulnerable to a mere sword with no great magical ability or anything displayed that showed the ring as some huge magnifier of magical ability. A limit involving the quotient of two sums. They could not fight him, since it was under Saurons power they were made, but they did distract him - Sauron was concentrating his sight and attantion upon Rivendell and Lothlorien. Doom. Saruman was a wizard and warlord, in a fortress controlled by himself, garrisoned by orcs and men, and separated from Mordor by regions which were not Sauron-friendly. In those, Saruman appears to harness the weather to command the snowstorm on the pass of Caradhras that dramatically halts the progress of the Fellowship. No doubt he would have exercised all his powers searching the area from Parth Galen where the Ringbearer departed to the Black Gate. In this scenario, Sauron likely would have recovered his Ring and covered all the lands in a second darkness. Here's a new theory concerning Saruman and Grima. Nori even said in the finale that the Stranger was there to help. But eventually the Ring would subvert their efforts and bring about evil. Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? Galadriel and Gandalf each made a conscious decision not to embark on such a course; but Saruman would not have hesitated. Of course, Saruman was shocked to hear about the One Ring but wasn't going to help Gandalf conceal it because he had already chosen a new course of action. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Although Saruman had selfish motives, he didn't expect to fall so deep . In any event, a confrontation between Saruman and Sauron seems as though it would not be a closely fought as the one between Gandalf and Sauron described above; Gandalf was able to cast-out Saruman, so it seems as though Sauron would have more easily had the upper-hand in such a contest. The White Wizard put Isengard at Sauron's disposal until his armies were defeated at Helms Deep and his staff was broken by the resurrected Gandalf. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. When the good wizard Saruman uses one to spy on the peoples of Middle-earth, he is drawn in by its power and ensnared by . He wanted the One Ring. In fact, he had started searching for the One Ring (and found Isildur's remains) well before the events of The Hobbit. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! How to show that an expression of a finite type must be one of the finitely many possible values? If he would have been strong enough to control the ring, what would have happened to Sauron? So He would do what He did after His defeat by Isildur. Why does Gandalf seek counsel from Saruman about the One Ring after leaving Frodo in the Shire? That's when the Rohirrim attacked, allowing the Hobbits to escape into Fangorn forest. So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the next Dark Lord of Middle-earth. He also used his Palantir to spy on Sauron. ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? Why did Saruman seem to believe that Sauron wouldn't return? Rather, Saruman would have had to dominate Sauron's will and essentially kick him out of the Ring. Like the Valar He was created in the Beginning. Gandalf feared the power the ring would give him. He believed that Sauron would never return, so he had his own set of schemes. I recall the Narsil having been forged by the elves, using elvish magic. For one, the Ring wasn't a tool or a weapon of war that anyone could use for anything. Even still, Frodo set the benchmark for hope and volunteered to take the One Ring to Mordor, where he destroyed it and saved the world from disaster. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. He is Maiar. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Despite an erratic and feeble end, for long he was one of the wise, and for long desired the ring; he could not possibly have failed to consider Sauron's response. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. Saruman Secretly Forged His Own Ring of Power in The Lord of the Rings. Do you want to be the first who gets the news directly to your mailbox? By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Sauron may not learn the true goal of the Ringbearer but he would know that the ringbearer was most likely near or nearing his borders. The power they have is to give stature to the wearer in the minds of others, and to enhance the emotional strength of the wearer, in the manner desired by their maker. He concealed his identity and ran away whenever he was confronted. He says: "Even reckoned as a lord and captain Saruman has grown very strong Saruman also had a mind to capture the Ring for himself [Sauron] now has Isengard to fear as well as Minas Tirith" The word "fear" seems important here. Read more on cbr.com. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Without Rohan and Gondor, humans would be . Rohan would've fallen to Saruman and wouldn't have been able to come to the aid of Gondor and helped make the final stand against the forces of Mordor at the Black Gate. Well what DID the Ring do for Sauron? I say this because Saruman would never have destroyed the ring and so the ring would have eventually consumed him since Sauron was its true master. I'm a little vague on this point. He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly. It may have taken a while to learn to use the Ring to its full potential, and Sauron would surely have put everything he had behind trying to get it back, but itd be iffy, and he certainly couldnt use the Nazgul or other ring-empowered creatures against the weilder of the One. Many of the vague abilities listed above are also part and parcel to those abilities listed below. I would have thought that they would have been used against Sauron if at all possible while he didnt have the one. Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. . Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. Gandalf, however, likely took Saruman's position, not knowing that Saruman had invented the story of it washing out to sea and was looking for the One Ring for himself. Again Aragorn refuses it, apparently without any internal struggle whatsoever. Sauron was the master ring-maker in LOTR, but Saruman also forged a ring of power so that he could eventually challenge the Dark Lord. It would be difficult for Sauron. If not for Gandalf, Gondor might've fallen to Sauron. Saruman was corrupted already so was a good candidate for the One Ring, through him it could exert Sauron's will to enslave all Middle-earth. What would have happened if Saruman had gotten his hands on the One Ring? What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see? There's the slight possibility that Saruman would have given the One Ring to Sauron and served as lieutenant to the most powerful being in Middle-earth. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Already Saruman had a lust for power and even desired the One Ring for himself. Answer (1 of 3): In short: nobody else could use it against him. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". You are using an out of date browser. If he could obtain or recreate the One Ring for himself, he would be able to rule Middle-earth just like Sauron did. Hes of the same order of beings as Sauron, so he certainly has enough power to effectively use the ring. Did Aragorn ever offer the ring to Frodo? Saruman is one of few "grey" characters in the books, meaning he's neither gone fully evil or good. After all, he was extremely powerful in his own right. As Sauron once was, Saruman, a Maia of Aule, became absorbed in Ring-lore as he studied Sauron's evil works. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. So what's a few millennia. Forces from Mordor and Rhun would have been sent to fight their way through Rohan, leaving Minas Tirith undefeated to the south. For example, Beregond is reprimanded for leaving his post but is assigned to a position of honor by Aragorn in recognition of why he disobeyed. When it comes to the Stranger, played by Daniel Weyman, we learned he is one of the Istari, but we did not learn his actual name. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. You would have a situation where Saruman knows exactly where the Ringbearer is headed and Sauron knowing Saruman is suspiciously concentrated on the area from Parth Galen to the Black Gate. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. It basically lets them look unique according to their enchantment. Eomer had no clue about rings and quests. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. Since Sauruman was once justly revered as among the great, by such as Elrond, and even Gandalf, it seems that he might well have been able to use the ring against Sauron successfully. Either way, the battle between them would have been a catastrophic lose-lose situation for everyone. Please message us if we have not credited you! Sauron originally made the One Ring to enhance his ability to influence and suppress or control the wills of other beings, specifically the Children of Ilvatar (Elves, Dwarves, and Men). Hes lost his way in a search for greater power. The Mystics, believing the Stranger is Sauron, tell him he must go to Rhn to fully explore his powers. The White Wizard truly believed that he could resist both the dark lord's power and then, when in possession of it, the lure of the Ring of Power. Opens in new tab Opens in new tab Opens in new tab. (Letter 246). We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Tolkiens trilogy its even plastered on the cover of several editions of the books. The first thing you need to realize is just how long a gap there was between the two trilogies. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. His own greed and lust for power turned him to darkness on his own, and Sauron through the Palantir had already turned Saruman into his tool - though Saruman was of no use to Sauron at all once defeated. If any artists would like us to remove their artwork, or add anything additional to credit you, please contact us and we will sort it straight away! Does he use his great voice, enhanced by the One to subjugate the free peoples. Saruman joined Sauron only partially. Saruman wasnt an elf, or even a man. He caught up with the orcs and destroyed them in the early hours of the 29th. If Saruman had the ring and he learned to master it, he could rule Sauron's armies and servants as it says in The Fellowship Of The Ring. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that effects all events afterwards! We know of his ultimate betrayal against Middle-earth, maybe especially against his fellow Wizards and the Valar. He would simply wait and let the Ring do what it was made to do. What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? In The Lord of the Rings, the palantri corrupt nearly all who use them. Is he stronger than the will of the ring? Around 500 years before The Lord of the Rings, the White Council was formed in Rivendell -- a group for Middle-earth's most powerful beings to discuss Sauron.Galadriel wanted Gandalf to take the head position, but Saruman insisted that he be in charge because of his status. By the time we meet Saruman in The Lord of the Rings, hes up to no good. The chapter is a partly published version of a manuscript now held at the Marquette University (MSS 4/2/31-37); [1] other parts of this manuscript and a time scheme have been included in The . The free people of Middle-earth had possession of Sauron's One Ring, but that was only a minor Read more on cbr.com. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. Either way Sauron would've just destroyed him at some point if he got the ring back; Saruman getting the Ring is another . If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? Amy Ratcliffe is the Editor-in-Chief for Nerdist and the author ofStar Wars: Women of the Galaxy, The Art of Star Wars: Galaxys Edge, The Jedi Mind, and more. Remember, the greater part of Saurons strength was poured into the ring. If the Uruk Army sent by Saruman had captured Frodo and had gotten the One Ring to Saruman, what would Saruman have done with it? 2023 Minute Media - All Rights Reserved. Sauron is the primary villain of The Lord Of The Rings. The Lord Of The Rings. He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. The White Wizard -- at the height of his power -- could have been a match for the Ringless Dark Lord. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Earlier in the same letter we see just exactly how useful the Ring would have been to a hypothetical Ring-bearing Saruman (or anyone else, for that matter): Sauron would not have feared the Ring! Yet, he had . Two Blue Wizards went with Saruman into the East. He would have also learned where the Fellowship was broken and knowing the Ringbearer's true purpose would assume his destination would be the Black Gate which indeed it was until Gollum convinced Frodo otherwise. Any idea what set any of these are from? In Tolkiens work, Saruman went to Rhn, shortly after he arrived in Middle-earth, in factjust like the Stranger. Why didn't they bring the Ring to Valinor? For all things Tolkien, Lord of The Rings, and The Hobbit Press J to jump to the feed. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Saruman later describes himself as "Ring-maker" when taunting Gandalf. 3 Why didnt Gandalf use the giant eagles?